mrmckoy

LonelyPrince

You're a saint.

THE HERETIC

I hate when people use that term inappropriately (No offense intended, but I have to make a point.).

Opinion is a matter of something of taste that cannot be proven: "Chocolate is the best flavour ever! The best type of steak is aged and cooked well-done."

Whether or not someone subjected children to grotesque sexual acts is not something of taste.

Even without police prosecuting him, he looks guilty.

If you don't want to believe the facts and just believe what you want to believe for whatever reasons you have, that's fine. Just don't expect respect in your argument when it is devoid of fact and is based on wishful thinking.

Just because we don't want something to be so does not make it unholy for someone to say it is. And just because a person is dead it does not mean that he is excused from what he did.

I don't know. Maybe I have said to much. I just don't think that false sanctity is a reason to make topics taboo. It's one step in the direction of censorship and two in the direction of idolitry.

mrmckoy

as thoughtful as we want to be why not make a point about someone else. the idea of MJ has become a bit tiring and its just begining.

history will analyze him correctly.

slaterock

A fact is something that can be proven. You didn't state any, it's all your opinion or hearsay.
So don't become angry because people don't agree with your opinion.
Michael looks guilty to you. The keys words are "to you". I hope to god you're never selected for jury duty.

We don't have any evidence what so ever, but someone made allegations that can't be proven. He looks guilty too, therefor he is. That's all I need to know lock him up and throw away the key.

THE HERETIC

Slaterock,

I did state facts.

FACT: MJ's modus operandi for the majority of the kids that alledged abuse was that he asked children of poor families to stay with him.

FACT: Upon asking the children's parents for them to stay, he would pay bills and give money if they allowed them to stay. This condition continued as the children kept coming over.

FACT: Jordan Chandler, the boy to whom MJ paid $22,000,000.00 to out court to end pursuit in court, describe his genitalia with "strong similarities."

FACT: MJ, himself, admitted to sleeping in the same bed with many children, sometimes in multiples. With a straight face in multiple interviews, he said that there is nothing wrong with a grown man doing this.

FACT: Emanuel Lewis's mother ended their friendship when MJ checked himself and Emanuel Lewis into a hotel room as father and son.

FACT: Latoya Jackson dondemned MJ for being a child molester. She did recant her statement for unknown reasons.

I didn't make this stuff up. These are the facts.

I also said in my post that I did not want to offend you, and that a lot of what I said was not even really pointed at you. It is a true pet peeve of mine when people confuse opinion with facts, be they incorrect facts, conditional facts, or correct.

'No offense. It's simply the classically trained logically mined philosophy minor in me speaking. We actually prove facts and truth mathematically with truth charts, so we do not take such things as opinion and facts so lightly.

I have no problem with being wrong. I have no problem with opinions. Like many people have heard me say, "Don't get upset when you hear opinion or see activities you don't like and don't hurt anyone. 'It's not for you.'"

My problem is, and I am going to put this in all caps so that maybe everyone can see what I am saying and not what they think I am saying:

JUST BECAUSE THIS MAN WAS A GREAT ENTERTAINER AND YOU WOULD NOT WANT HIM TO HAVE BEEN A MOLESTOR, THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO HAVE DONE IT, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE EVIDENCE POINTS THAT FACT, NO MATTER HOW UNFLATTERING IT IS. IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC FACTS, LOGICAL ARGUMENTS, OR LINKS, PLEASE GIVE THEM TO ME. I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR OR SEE THEM, BUT DO NOT HIDE BEHIND THIS "LET THE DEAD REST" S#IT. THAT DOES NOT MAKE FACT, IT IS JUST AN ATTEMPT TO HIDE BY SAYING, "I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT!"

I would love for it to be that no children were molested, but it really doesn't look like that is the case. And that's obviously not just me that thinks that. If you look at all the evidence and you still want to believe, then hey, GOD bless you. I'm not the one.

I don't think that anyone thinks a man in his right mind sleeps with children in their bed. But he's MJ, so he was almost magical, and kills dreams to many. I understand that people don't want that to be, but "wishin' don't make it so."

I'm not saying anything else on this unless it is in response to any facts given directed at me.

To the people offended, please realize that the reason you are getting offended is because that you believe so blindly and have such faith in a flesh and blood non-divine entity, that anything but agreement with your beliefs in this matter (Notice I didn't say opinion.) will be met with accusations of conspiracy and defacing character and defiling the sanctity of the dead.

Folks, again, don't take offense. I don't try to piss people off, but I don't bow down to illogical or emotional just because it will hurt feelings; especially in I think is a public and open forum of people I respect. To give any less than my honest opinions and what I believe are my true beliefs is not fair to you or me.

Locutus 2.0

lemme say this... if a male or female was a child molester... would they OPENLY show that they have affection for kids? Famous or not, most child molesters do their deeds of evil under false pretenses.

THE HERETIC

Yes, some would. Do you know why? It is because they are not right in the head.

If you want proof of what people will do, admit to, or even advocate then look here at what Philip Buble did.

If you judge what people will and won't do by what YOU would and would not do, you are in for some major disappointment in life. Here:



Pet-Abuse.Com - Animal Abuse Case Details: Admitted zoophile beaten by father with crowbar - Dover Foxcroft, ME (US)

slaterock

Facts can be proven!
Prove that MJ asked the parents of misfortunate children to keep their kids while they would be compensated.

As far a desribing MJ's genitalia, that was hearsay, never proven.

Here's a fact for you, the second child with cancer involving the molestation charges wasn't sought out by MJ. The kid was supposed to die, and it was his last wish to meet MJ.
People close to the boy arranged it. MJ accepted and took pity on the boy and paid for his medical expenses. This can be proven, just look up the interviews conducted by Martin Bishir or Edward Bradley. I can't recall which one.

I find this strange. But a few day before the boy made those allegations, he was on the interview with MJ. Leaning his head on his shoulder, claim how great he was and that MJ was his best friend. I'm no child psychologist, but I would assume a child being molested wouldn't want to continue being around the molester. Much less give him praise. But I could be wrong.

Fact: Macaulay Culkin was called to testify in one of the trails. He also shared a bed with MJ, but stated that MJ never attempted to do anything with him and didn't believe MJ was a pedifile.

Fact: Neverland ranch was raided by police soon after the first accusation, nothing was ever found. No evidence what so ever. Hundreds of video tapes were found, but not one showing child pornography. Nothing wasn't found on the computers either. Kind of strange for a pedifile don't you think?

Fact:Latoya Jackson, estranged sister of the family would say and do just about anything to get the public's attention.

Fact:If evidence is found that you are a pedifile, no one has to press charges for you to go to jail. Don't believe me, start downloading child pornagraphy and storing it on your computer. Why do you think MJ won the second trail? No proof besides the accusations which couldn't be proven.

By the way, I'm not angry. I just think you're full of sh*t.

mrmckoy